E: Hey, this is Emilee, co-host of Open for Discussion. Thanks so much for checking out this podcast. It’s our second episode. As baby podcasters, there are still some things we’re figuring out. One of those things is audio. The audio in this episode is a bit scuffed. There’s some unfortunate Echo/Reverb that no amount of editing finesse could undo. That said, we had a lot of fun recording this episode and decided to go ahead and post it anyway, and learn from our mistakes for the next episode. So thanks in advance for your patience while we figure this whole thing out. Happy listening!

C: I’m Candice

E: I’m Emilee

Both: and this is Open for Discussion!

E: Today’s episode is about books!

C: Yes. E-books, audiobooks, books you know, hardcover books, however you like your books.

E: How do you take your books?

C: Yes, do you want to start off with how you forgot to read?

E: Sure, okay sure. We mentioned it briefly in the last episode. I was in a PhD program and I was 3 years in, and COVID hit. We entered lockdown–

C: which was either a good thing for some people or a bad thing for other people–

E: well, that, seeing the difference between good for some people and bad for some people is really what was the catalyst for me leaving the program.

C: Okay.

E: So I was teaching two classes at the time and we had to pivot to online, and then I was also supposed to be preparing for my second round of comprehensive exams and preparing to defend my um dissertation proposal. I was the only person in my cohort with kids, and so we would get on Zoom calls and everyone else would be like “I have so much more time now, like now that I don’t have to go into the office at all, like I I have so much more time to like read my comps list, I have so much more time to research, I have so much more time to like write my dissertation,” and I would have my two toddlers in the background just like shrieking with no clothes on and–

C: Mom life!–

E: and I would be like, “I have infinitely less time than I had before,” because my kids are no longer in preschool and daycare my husband is home working from home, and I’m having to he’s on calls all day long, and I’m having to keep the kids entertained and away, because otherwise he can’t do his calls, and he’s the one that’s making all the money right now, like so like his stuff kind of took priority during the work day and then I would try to do my work after he was done. And it just like was not working. It was so chaotic all the time. All my coping mechanisms that I had developed and built over the years, to kind of get through school successfully, to be able to read and take in information really easily, everything broke. Everything–my, my brain just like, snapped and I wasn’t able to do it anymore. And then one day, I picked up a book and looked at the words on the page and realized I had no idea what I was looking at. Like, I could not read. Something in my brain had broken so profoundly that I physically could not read. And my entire school career, my entire PhD program, was based around reading. Everything I was doing revolved around reading.

C: Mhm.

E: I was terrified because like, I’ve been reading since I was 3 years old!

C: Yeah.

E: And suddenly being physically unable to read was like the scariest thing that’s ever happened to me, and so I immediately went to my therapist and said “help! Please help me” and she said this is like beyond my ability to help, you need to see your psychiatrist.

C: Okay.

E: And I’d been seeing my psychiatrist for depression and anxiety for like, a couple years at that point, so I called her, and that’s when I got tested for ADHD, when we realized that I had ADHD, and I said well what, like, what do I do? Like you’re going to put me on medication, but what do I do about this, the fact that I can’t read? Like I have to read. And she was like I don’t, like, I don’t know what to tell you, I have nothing really to offer you there. And I was like like okay, well I guess I’ll just try to figure it out on my own. I tried every day, like I tried every day for a while, and then I got overwhelmed by the fact that I still couldn’t read, and I saw the words on the page and they looked foreign. They looked like an alien language. I had no idea what I was–I might as well been reading Russian, like that’s how indecipherable it was to me. So I just like, quit. I quit trying and I put the books down and I walked away and I was like I’ll just focus on teaching and I’ll focus on getting my family through lockdown because at that point, we still had no idea how long it was going to be going on. The fact that I couldn’t read was like on the back burner for a while because we had so much other stuff going on, but then I got really frustrated by it and decided that I really wanted to try to kind of learn how to read again, and so I started by picking up books that I had already read. That I, like, had read a dozen times. I started with Terry Pratchett’s Discworld series.

C: Okay.

E: Because I had read those, I had already read all those books, I knew the characters like they were my best friends, because I had read some of those books so many times, and I knew, like, I knew the story, so I knew if anything was going to get me back to able to read, it was going to be those books. But what really turned the corner for me–

C: I was about to ask–

E: was audiobooks. Someone suggested, um, getting some audiobooks and just listening

C: Mhm

E: and I was like why don’t I buy the audiobook version of the book that I’m reading, and I will read along while I listen to the audiobook and hopefully that will help me reconnect, like, the words I’m seeing on the page with what I’m hearing and then that will like, jog my memory on how to read and it worked it worked like a charm. I didn’t finish the program.

C: Mhm.

E: I ended up doing something completely different.

C: We love new things,

E: life and career,

C: great.

E: But without audiobooks I don’t know if I would be able to read.

C: Thank you for sharing where things were hard, and how you kind of really were like, no I’m just going to get back to this, yeah, and determination and I like that you gave yourself enough of a break, because also having ADHD, like, you have to know when to pause, and I’m just going to get back to this, like that burnout moment, and I think a lot of Millennials, like, we have that. You tried, took a break, and you’re like, I’m going to get back to this. Yeah. I think that is really good, like you said now you’re in a completely different, you know, field.

E: So flash forward yeah to me encountering TikTok finding– finding TikTok, finding Booktok.

C: Love Tik Tok.

E: And realizing that there are people in the world who think that audiobooks are not really reading.

C: Yeah, there’s a lot of people do that or ebooks,

E: that it’s not

Both: it doesn’t count

C: yeah cuz you don’t have this hard physical copy in front of you, um, and I think it’s great that other people really love a paperback or hardback copy of things, but um, that’s I mean, however you can get you, finish a book or however you read a book, I think that’s, yeah, whatever works for you.

E: I was just talking to someone last night, I was telling about my Kindle setup that I have, with my little goose-neck Kindle holder, I was like I think I might splurge and get the remote control, and he was like oh yeah, I don’t have a Kindle. I just don’t, I can’t see it being worth it because I only read, like, four books last year. And I was like okay, like I get that, and then we kept talking and then it comes out that he had also read 12 audiobooks! And I was like why didn’t you count that? That’s 16 books that you read last year, like that’s nothing to sneeze at, and he–

C: nothing to sneeze at, we’re using that!

E: But he was like downplaying how much he had read, because he didn’t think the audio books really counted. I was like come on,

C: it does count

E: you give yourself some credit, it counts, it’s reading, you

C: 100% yeah

E: you took the information that was in the book and got it into your brain.

C: Mhm.

E: That counts

C: it does,

E: that’s reading

C: Or like my favorite is when other people are like oh, well if you read certain genres, like it doesn’t count. So I’m like well like my favorite genre, romance books, like I love all types of romance, whether it’s like super cute and a little fluffy, or you know, some erotica, some things, like it whatever floats my boat for that time period, and also I just have tons of author people that I love who write in this specific genre, so it could be romance, but fantasy romance, but contemporary, or like whatever. I like a baseline of a little bit of love in that, that’s just that’s my my go-to.

E: You love romance.

C: I do. I love fantasy. I love some sci-fi stuff. What about you?

E: Oh, I am big in my faerie smut era right now.

C: Love it. Have you ever read, um, alien romance?

E: No.

C: Have you never heard of this?

E: No!

C: Okay, um, so if you BookTokers know what I’m talking about, you’re also laughing with me. So like, there’s a whole genre of, like, alien romance, yeah, so anything you’re thinking right now, yeah. We do not judge any books, but there’s some that it just, it gets a little weird for mine, just like how some erotica–there’s warnings usually on the books. I’m getting completely off-topic but there’s like one book I read, it’s called Butcher and Blackbird, I got the ebook, started reading that, then I found out that they had, um, an audiobook for it, and I was like yes. Um, it’s about two serial killers who kill serial killers, so I mean I’m already roped in, cuz I’m like all right, well now I have to be like on your side, clearly.

E: Yeah if you’re going to murder, at least murder the murderers.

C: Yes um but it’s super cute because they–I mean it’s not super cute, it’s a little gory, just a little morbid! But it was good, like.

E: On that same note, I am like, I’ve always been a big fantasy reader, loved Lord of the Rings growing up, I love like world building and weird place names. Maps, if there’s a map in the front of the book, that’s my book.

C: I don’t know if you’ve read the newest Sarah J Maas um series, uh, what is it called, oh my God.

E: Crescent City ?

C: Yes, thank you.

E: Yes, I did read Crescent City.

C: Okay.

E: I read– I’m caught up on ACOTAR.

C: Like all the way to Silver Flames?

E: All the way to Silver Flames.

C: Okay.

E: I did finally break down and read Throne of Glass. Now, I started Throne of Glass and the first book I was not impressed.

C: Yeah.

E: And I was like, this isn’t for me, I don’t think I’m going to continue, and someone told me that I had to like, get through.

C: Yeah.

E: Which I don’t love. Like I don’t love having to slog through a book in order to get to like the good part of the series, but I am glad that I did. I am glad that I did, because I really am enjoying the actual, like, story of that one and the character development in that one is really good.

C: That was her first series, and then ACOTAR was her second series.

E: Like Throne of Glass proper, the first book in that series, screams “this is my first book.”

C: Yeah I can see that, yeah.

E: Just very like stunted, stilted dialogue, characters are very like, one-dimensional. I know that there’s like a lot hiding behind them that we’re going to come to find out later, but at the same time it was just like, difficult to read, but it does get better, and now I’m on um, Tower, the tower one.

C: Oh okay, is that the,

E: what is it called?

C: Is that the one with Chaol?

E: Yes.

C: Okay.

E: When he’s getting…

C: Yeah… I stopped reading. I just stopped reading, the middle of that book I was like, I’m done.

E: That–I did, I took like, a couple days’ break from that one in the middle because there’s just like, there’s like a lot.

C: With him. Yeah, it’s not, I just,

E: he’s not my, he’s not my favorite character. He was! In the beginning I really liked him. When he becomes, like

C: I kind of feel like the same thing with um, in ACOTAR there’s like a certain character everybody’s like–yes–the first like book, partially into the second book, and then you’re like.

E: I know who you’re talking about.

C: I’m not– I’m not going to, there’s no spoilers, I’m going to try to be–but yeah.

E: I know who you’re talking about and I agree with you, and, but I, but I got bad vibes from him from the very beginning.

C: Yeah.

E: So I–

C: yeah–

E: I was right.

C: You were, yeah. Yeah, I my friend had let me borrow a Court of Thorns and Roses, first book, and she was like um, here this will help you get back into reading, and I’m like okay. I devoured that book in like, a matter of like, I think 2 days, and then she gave me the second one and I’m like I need more please, and she’s like the third book doesn’t… like what do you mean the third book doesn’t come out? What are you talking about?

E: Okay, the feeling I got when I found out that that series was not finished, when I finished the last book and I was like wait a minute!

C: Mhm.

E: Where’s the resolution? And then to come to find out there’s more books coming out, I was like this is unsustainable.

C: So you’re one of those people that has to find a series that’s pretty much finished.

E: Yes because okay, but then then what happened, so I read ACOTAR first, yeah, okay, and then I went to my friend who is like a big reader, her name is Silver, we love her, and we–I went to Silver. And I said okay well I finished all the books in the ACOTAR series that are available right now, what should I read next? Because I want something that has like, a similar vibe, I don’t really like know where to go from here, because there’s just too much. So she gave me two recommendations, she was like if you want more spice, read this; if you want less spice, read this. I went with a more spice option which was the From Blood and Ash series by Jennifer L. Armentrout, and that series is also not finished!

C: She does not finish, she starts–this one, she has so many series that I’ve read cuz at first, um, she’s actually the author that got me back into reading, so like 2016, when I started getting back into like, hardcore reading–all puns intended– I was basically a financial analyst at the time, so I just listened like, to music on my headphones or whatever and then I found out on YouTube they had books. Like I had no money for ebooks, I had no– like I didn’t know where to start for all that, so anyway, I just went on YouTube then somehow I got down this rabbit hole of books and I was like there’s audiobooks! And then I found, um, Jennifer L Armentrout, but at the time she also writes under J. Lynn, so I found one of her books um I think it’s like a new adult, because she writes in different genres, her new adult books, um that I can’t remember that exact series, and then I just started devouring all of her–like Googling, I was like oh my God, and found all of this, and then there was a book series, it’s called um, the Luck Series? So they’re aliens it’s, yeah, though oh yeah it’s yeah,

E: so it’s not so spicy,

C: no it’s actually it’s like set in high school it’s–I just love that series, and I wound up actually buying the hard covers, because I love that book series so much, and then I put it on my shelf as like a trophy– does anybody else do that?

E: I think a lot of people do that. I don’t because I have a tiny house, if I bought physical copies of books as trophies for all the ebooks and audio books that I’ve read, I would not have a place to lay my head and go sleep.

C: Fair, that’s fair. Well actually, like, you would think that I actually would have more books than what I already do, but I don’t–I think I have like less than 200 books.

E: So I read ACOTAR. I read From Blood and Ash. I read Carissa Broadbent’s um, Crowns of Nyaxia. It’s like a two-book series and it is a complete–because I got ACOTAR, read ACOTAR, realized it wasn’t a complete series. Got Blood and Ash, read Blood and Ash, realized that it wasn’t a complete series. And I was like gimme a freaking complete series, I need some closure! I need some resolution! I need some–I need a ride off into the sunset!

C: You know what that reminds me, are you a happily ever after kind of girly, or does it matter?

E: I don’t need it to be a happily ever after. One thing that actually does kind of bug me about Sarah J Maas’s books is that no one ever dies. Like none of the main characters ever, no, die. Like, so I hesitate to bring up Harry Potter, because JK Rowling is objectively a terrible person, but I was a big big Harry Potter person when I was like in Middle School and High School, in even College, they were my comfort books for a long time. She knew how to kill her Darlings. She knew how to kill a character and make you cry and make you lose sleep over it, and I don’t get that with Sarah J Maas, like you don’t have the opportunity to like, connect to a character and have your heart broken, and sometimes you don’t want that, but sometimes you’re like okay, there’s like 15 of you, and you’re going on this massive epic journey together, and none of you died? Really? All of like, the secondary like, random soldier guards are like, dying left and right and none–not a single main character dies, ever, in these books.

C: Did you not cry when [REDACTED] oh God, sorry, spoiler, cut that out! Was–there was one part of one of the ACOTAR characters, there was a dramatic moment–did you not, did that not gut you? Cuz that got me like I literally was crying.

E: No, I have not cried any of these books.

C: Maybe because that specific character is like, one of my favorite book boyfriends, but–completely off topic.

E: No, but Carissa Broadbent’s Crowns of Nyaxia series, highly recommend.

C: Okay.

E: And um, I got closure on that, it’s just like a, it’s a, it’s two books and boom, you’re done. After you read the second book it’s over, like there’s, everything is tied up nicely with a bow and I don’t need a happy ending, but I do need everything to be tied up nicely with a bow.

C: I appreciate that, that I do, yeah, because I actually found off like on Tik Tok, like a character that goes through something traumatic or whatever, or there’s a loss in a book, your brain does not know the difference between that being a real person or not. I don’t know how true this is, but I’m claiming it to be true.

I believe that, I believe that.

C: Cuz I feel like, when there’s certain characters you get so close with

E: [this somehow got cut, but Em referenced a scientific study that found the heart rates of people watching videos of others exercising went up as if they were the ones exercising] like if you were the one doing the exercise, did you know that?

C: No.

E: Our brains do weird things and this is why I’m saying the audiobooks count as reading.

C: I think so

E: because you are still, it’s the same thing, it’s just like watching a video of someone else exercise, your heart rate is still going up, you’re still getting the information into your brain,

C: you’re still getting information, yeah,

E: you are reading, it counts as reading.

C: I think so

E: and without audiobooks, again, I would not be a reader, and I have like 15 to 20 odd books on my Kindle right now that would not be on there, would not have been read, if it were not for audiobooks.

C: We love audiobooks love audiobooks I do I like I will actually read new books because there’s certain narrators that I absolutely love, and they’re reading this and I’m like ooh.

E: Okay, I don’t connect to like narrators… if it’s a bad narrator, it’ll ruin the whole thing for me.

C: Yes I agree, but there’s some narrators that I’m just like, you could read me a book about math and I’m just like oh God my ears are so happy.

E: I, I really like it when authors narrate their own audiobooks. I do have one of my favorite books, actually, that the author narrates the book. I really like it because I feel like I’m hearing it exactly how they intended it to be heard, you know.

C: That’s what I love, yes, I do and if they they have a great personality and it just comes out with them just reading to you. So have you ever read um, uh, Big Magic?

E: Yes by Elizabeth Gilbert! I listened– that was my, summer of 2019, that book on audio book I listened to it every single time I was doing yard work. Yeah. And I probably listened to that book like four times over the course of that summer. That’s my comfort book, I loved that book. I read so many non-fiction books through audio book, like I did the Terry Pratchett books in the beginning, and then I ended up with my history books that I was reading on audiobook, and then I transitioned to like, Elizabeth-Gilbert-type books, I guess you could call them self-help. Yeah, self-help books. As well last year over the summer my comfort book was Prescription for Happiness by Robin Berzin, and I listened to that book like every day, and read it multiple times over the summer, cuz last year was kind of my like, self-help book year. I read a lot of self-help books, then I saw a thing online–it was a TikTok! It was a TikTok. I saw this TikTok where it was, someone was like, when I stopped reading self-help books and started reading faerie smut, my life got so much better. Yeah and I was like–you know what? 2024 is my faerie smut era, and it has been, and I’m so happy. And she was right. Like, I read so many self-help books last year trying to become the best version of myself, when in order to become the best version of myself, I just needed like

C: just needed… word porn.

E: I didn’t need to think more about myself and think more about the things that I needed to change about myself, I needed to dive into a book and find a character that I really loved–Nesta– and work to embody her in my life, and that that is what has made me a better version of myself.

C: Was Nesta. Audiobooks I think are great like I — I don’t know, I can do something and listen to it, and some people are like well how can you do two things at once, I’m like but if I’m doing a meaningless task, like I don’t know if I’m doing data entry, or something like with spreadsheets, I’m focused in, but I can still, yeah, think of, does that make sense?

E: Yeah it does, and I do it most, like, audiobooks for me are very much a, I’m cleaning my house, yes, I’m doing yard work, like a physical labor, like I don’t have to put thought into what the physical action that I’m doing. If I’m folding laundry–first of all if I’m folding laundry, a miracle has happened because I don’t fold laundry–if I have already done the mental labor of doing a load of laundry, getting it out of the dryer, and putting it on the bed, I don’t, there’s no more mental work to be done after that. Folding is mindless.

C: Mhm.

E: And so if I turn on an audiobook I can absolutely listen to an audiobook, and fold laundry at the same time. I can watch a movie and fold at the same time

C: yeah

E: audiobook is no different.

C: That’s, yeah when it comes to reading, I’m this character’s point of view, like, I’m this person that’s how I am with with um fiction books.

E: You like a, you like a self-insert. Yeah, I love that. Did you like Twilight?

C: Yeah, yeah.

E: There’s nothing wrong with liking Twilight. I really liked it.

C: I did like it, when I was like 15

E: really like when I was a teenager

C: yes I was, and now I’m just like why? Well because, yeah it was a comfort book, it was something new to talk about, vampires.

E: I wanted someone to be as obsessed with me as Edward was obsessed with Bella.

C: That’s fair, yeah. At 15, yeah, I really wanted that.

E: And she was such a nothing character that I can absolutely imagine myself as. Bella was like a blank slate, she was the most boring female character ever written

C: but yeah I was like obsessed with that. And then–but did you know 50 Shades of Gray was actually a fanfiction?

E: I did know that! I, I never read that fan fiction myself, I was not actually a big fanfiction girl.

C: I was, I loved fanfiction.com.

E: I did not even know that it was a thing for a long time. Did not, and if I had known, it would have been a very dangerous thing because of how much I loved Harry Potter.

C: There was so many, so many, yeah do you like hard cover books or soft cover? Does it matter to you?

E: It doesn’t really matter.

C: That’s fair.

E: Are you a spinebreaker?

C: No.

E: [whispering] I am a spinebreaker.

C: Do you like, fold…? [Emilee nods] No I try not to, I mean I have one book that I read so much, when I was in high school, it’s called Black China, if you ask me what it’s about right now I don’t remember, I know the the title of it but anyway, I read the book so much that I had to tape the front cover to it when I was in high school.

E: If you look at my Terry Pratchett books they’re all like, white lines down the spines because I’m constantly just like,

C: just breaking them.

E: Some people get really, that really bothers people.

C: Listen, you’re reading, I’m not going to sit here and yell at you.

E: You’re reading, it’s your book.

C: It is your book, if you bought, whatever. You know a fun fact about me?

E: Yeah.

C: I used to work in the library. It was my very first job, called a library page, so I worked all through high school until I graduated college.

E: I love that for you.

C: Yeah it was great, I absolutely loved it, um, I got unlimited books, I had no late fees, so very spoiled by that, um, yeah, just a little fun fact. So anytime– so like when the new Twilight books came out,

E: oh yeah,

C: didn’t even–

E: you WERE the waitlist.

C: I was, yes. I think, we need librarians. I think like that’s super important, for us to have them and uh, they have to have all types of knowledge.

E: The information literacy part of being a librarian is so so so important and because of how quickly technology is changing you have to like stay up to date with all of that stuff, and that’s like a full-time job all on its own. When I was teaching gen eds at the University, I was teaching like basic history classes, I taught a couple gender classes, but my ultimate goal every time I was teaching a gen ed class, because I was getting everyone, like everyone has to take these classes, was I if I can make you 10% more information literate in this class, I will have done my job.

C: That’s great, I think that’s a really good–

E: Because I was teaching them, like, I was supposed to be teaching them research skills, etc etc, but what I need you to be able to do is research something, and then realize if what you’re reading about this particular topic is fake.

C: Yeah

E: like, is that true, how can we corroborate that, how can we verify that, and that’s–that was like my focus in every class that I taught.

C: I like that.

E: And also teaching about what a scandalous guy Ben Franklin was.

C: so we talked about audiobooks,

E: we did um talk about ebooks.

C: We touched upon it, but do you know where to get your eBooks from besides Amazon?

E: Besides Amazon, that’s a tricky one because I do have a Kindle.

C: Yes

E: and it is like an OG Kindle so I can’t use the Libby app on it, but I know on the newer Kindles you can get the Libby app and get ebooks from your library right on your Kindle. I don’t know what other apps are there, what other options are there?

C: So hoopla is one, Chirp is another for audiobooks.

E: So for audiobooks, I was using Amazon Audible for a while, one of my friends introduced me to Libro.fm.

C: Yes.

E: And I switched to Libro and I was so happy with it,

C: it was the other one I, was

E: actually connects to your local bookstore, you connected to your local bookstore, as long as they’re participating, which a lot of local bookstores do participate,

C: the local book store by us, um, Words Matter–

E: Words Matter.

C: Love.

E: Highly recommend.

C: Yes

E: um, and that way your local bookstore is receiving the profit from that audiobook sale rather than Amazon. The other thing about Libro is that it’s also a subscription model, just like Audible so it’s really easy to kind of like, if you are used to an Audible subscription, Libro is a really great option because it’s the same model.

C: I think it’s also fairly priced isn’t it? I believe so

E: it’s the same price as an Audible subscription.

C: Um, I was going to say, like another one that I really love, um, besides Kindle, is like your local library, like there, I’m sure most of them have apps, if not, like you can just use your library card and you can download audiobooks for free, ebooks, movies, music, um just a little side note depending on where you live, in your county, you can also get free passes.

E: Yes, our library has passes for a few different museums.

C: Museums, yeah.

E: Zoos.

C: Some zoos. The parks.

E: Librarians are some of the most underutilized public employees that we have on this America–United States of America–on this America–your public Librarians are some of the greatest resources and if you just go in and ask, so many of them are so nice, and even the mean ones still know a lot,

C: and also with your library card, I think they also hold what you’ve borrowed,

E: oh like your history?

C: Your history of what you’ve read, yeah.

E: Our library though is like basically running on the late fees that we pay, we are keeping the library afloat with our late fees.

C: Yeah.

E: But you know what, it’s still cheaper than buying a book!

C: It is, and I mean they can also get any book for you

E: yes with interlibrary loans.

C: Yes. Uh, ThriftBooks.

E: Better World Books.

C: Also, you, do you know Target has great sales on books, like 20-30% ?

E: Yes, the selection is not always the best.

C: No.

E: But they have like, the best sellers

C: they do, and I love how they’re starting to bring in some indie authors. So we’ve gone over where we can find cheap books,

E: yes,

C: ebooks, used books, multiple platforms to use your library card.

E: Oh, are you on Goodreads?

C: Yeah.

E: Me too.

C: Love Goodreads.

E: We love Goodreads and I want to be friends with everywhere on Goodreads, so I’m going to link my Goodreads in the show notes.

C: Oh yeah, I’ll link mine too, that’s a great idea. I guess uh that wraps,

E: we kind of covered everything, yeah.

C: If there’s any other platforms you guys get your books, however you get your books, whatever format that is for you, let us know, and if you are watching us / listening to us on YouTube, leave a little book emoji down at the bottom,

E: yes,

C: and let us know. So that wraps up this episode of Open for Discussion. So yeah! Thanks, guys, for listening this week,

E: we’ll see you next time!

C: Yep.

[Music]